Dodge WC16 Radio Command Car - Project

[zepher11]

Now on to the transmission and transfer case. These seem to be in fairly good condition. Especially the transfer case. I'm trying to decide if I should even do anything with the transfer case other than clean it up. Seems nice and tight and spins really nice. The seals seem pretty good as well. If anything, maybe just replace the seals. Not sure.

The transmission seems pretty decent, but being that it is pretty difficult to remove vs. the transfer case, I should probably go through it and replace the bearings, etc... If the transfer case has fits, it seems a lot easier to remove and replace in the future. On the fence on that one, and not sure what to do yet:

[zepher11]

The transmission above is civilian, but it is in really decent shape overall. I do have a couple of transmissions that are in rugged shape internally that have the PTO covers on both sides. This is the best one that is handy:



What are the chances that the case is still in usable condition? I haven't pulled them apart yet...I have a 1 3/8" socket, but it isn't a thin wall socket! Anyway, pondering moving all of the gears form the civilian transmission to the this rusty one if possible. Another drawback is that the bell housing on the original T211 engine also can only accept the civilian transmission as it is NOT drilled for the double PTO cover transmission case bolt pattern, only the civilian pattern:





The bell housing has the spot for the mounting of the double PTO cover transmission...just not drilled. I guess one could drill it if necessary.

[Loffy770]

IMHO, the case will be ok once cleaned out given that you have no treads too damaged or any case cracks.. I am rebuilding my gearbox now. Actually doing two of them.
Sandblasted and cleaned out the treads, cases was perfect with one exception.. One thread for the PTO/Cover was a tiny bit dagaged but it will work...

Only seen one cracked case and that one had been full of water and cracked when it got cold outside...

//Roger

[zepher11]

IMHO, the case will be ok once cleaned out given that you have no treads too damaged or any case cracks.. I am rebuilding my gearbox now. Actually doing two of them.
Sandblasted and cleaned out the treads, cases was perfect with one exception.. One thread for the PTO/Cover was a tiny bit dagaged but it will work...

Only seen one cracked case and that one had been full of water and cracked when it got cold outside...

//Roger

Thank you for the input Roger. I'm a little worried about the lower threads for the PTO plates as there was still standing water in the bottom of the case. Hopefully, I can crack it open this weekend and get a good look.

Regards,

[zepher11]

Looks like Roger was correct. It appears to me that the case may be okay. Soaking it over night in degreaser to get a better look at it tomorrow, but all the bores for the bearings and shafts look pretty good. Even both of the machined surfaces for the cluster gear look good. It was a work out taking it apart with all the rust. I broke, and then bent, the reverse gear shaft trying to drive it out. I finally had to cut the hardened shaft, which wasn't easy due to access, to get it out of there:



Even the gears are in surprisingly good shape. I'm not an expert in determining if they can be reused or not...probably unlikely:



Overall, I'm pleased that it looks like I can switch back to the military case. I have a military bell housing as well with the correct bolt pattern, so should be good to go there as well.

[Loffy770]

Glad to hear that you can use it
The rollerbearing surfaces off the cluster is what you need to check as well as roller bearing surfaces on the shafts.. My guess is that it can be less than good..
But since you have a bunch of boxes you might have what you need.. Check the manual 1808B for tolerances to determine the status of your shafts..

Cheers

[zepher11]

Glad to hear that you can use it
The rollerbearing surfaces off the cluster is what you need to check as well as roller bearing surfaces on the shafts.. My guess is that it can be less than good..
But since you have a bunch of boxes you might have what you need.. Check the manual 1808B for tolerances to determine the status of your shafts..

Cheers

Hi Roger,

Yes, I have TM 9-1808B for the tolerance checks for the shafts. The bearing surfaces on the case look good, and I can't detect that there has been any wear on the mating surfaces with my fingers. However, on another project I ran into the cluster mating surfaces on the case not being up to snuff due to wear allowing too much end play for the cluster gear.

Anyone have the tolerance for the end play for the cluster gear in the case? I don't see that in the manual. Maybe it isn't as big a deal for this type of transmission case. I was surprised there wasn't any thrust washers between the cluster gear and transmission mating surfaces. Maybe the cluster gear mating surfaces are hardened in the case. I'll be checking it out closer today.

Thank you,

[Loffy770]

Well I made the same reflection regarding the thrust washers but since its strait cut gears I think the actual trust should be close to zero.. Then you have the issue of lubrication so maybe no exprimentation with thrust washers

[zepher11]

Well I made the same reflection regarding the thrust washers but since its strait cut gears I think the actual trust should be close to zero.. Then you have the issue of lubrication so maybe no exprimentation with thrust washers

Well, it's nice to not have to worry about the tolerances for the thrust washers. I don't know too much about transmissions in general. At a minimum, I like to learn enough to get the job at hand completed...and sometimes more as I would like to build a couple more before I expire. Anyway, I cleaned the rusty case a little today:



I then was able to get a good look at the cluster gear mating surfaces. They looked a bit more rugged than the other case I have with the good gears. Very pitted:



Therefore, I am going to go with the C35661 marked case with the one PTO cover on the right side. After additional research, I'm not so sure that this isn't the type of case this WC16 would have come with. I pulled that case apart today. I had a real problem getting the reverse idler shaft out of the case. That shaft on the rusted case popped right it when I slipped a screw driver tip in there. Not this one. The manual shows a little puller made to remove the shaft. I first used a Grade 5 bolt, but it bent and then sheared under the stress of tightening the nut. It then made this one with Grade 8 bolts:



A bit crude, but I couldn't figure out a better way:





After a lot of huffing and puffing, that darn thing finally popped and came out. I don't know if they used Loctite or what, but it was really in there solid. There rest of the transmission came apart with no issues.



I'm glad I decided to disassemble as the main drive pinion bearing is roached. Although it looks brand new, it appears as though it has sand in it and is really herky jerky when spun by hand. I will only spin by hand. The main shaft rear bearing spins free like it is brand new. Not sure, but I think I will replace it anyway.

I also found remnants of interior paint..Glyptal?...in this transmission. It is easier to see with the camera flash. Still not exactly sure of the reason to paint if it just disappears and treats the oil:



The PO had bought a main shaft low and second gear which is in cosmoline, so I thought I would check it out and see if it is in any better condition than the one I just removed. While cleaning it, I noticed that it has Ford stamped on it! What? Maybe they used the same gears in each other's transmissions. I don't know. :



I'm enjoying learning about these transmissions...

[Loffy770]

If you by mating surface mean the side walls I have much worse than that... as long as you do not have any sharp edges you will be just fine, its still in a oil bath and the pitting will be oil pockets anyway...
And sharp edges you just grind off carfully.

[zepher11]

If you by mating surface mean the side walls I have much worse than that... as long as you do not have any sharp edges you will be just fine, its still in a oil bath and the pitting will be oil pockets anyway...
And sharp edges you just grind off carfully.

I plan to complete two more WC's that have winches, so that is good to know that it isn't too critical. No sharp edges just a few little pockets. I think I will hold on to the double PTO case as an option for the WC's with PTO's. Hate to put this on the command car when it has not PTO and then not have a good case later when I need the PTO.

Appreciate the input!

[Loffy770]

Makes sense and you can swap when you like if you come across a second case... Your car, your decision
I will put in a 6x6 T-case just like Kaegi done on his CC, it my CC and I can do what I feel I like to do I will just store the old tcase after me renovating it. If I like to sell in the future I have all the correct tcase + parts in storage.

[zepher11]

My WC16 has some interesting marks on the bottom of the floor pan under where the driver's seat would be. Anyone have an idea what may have been here? Here are some photos of what I am looking at. There are like six rectangular clean areas where it looks like something was mounted, but I have no idea what it may have been. I didn't remove anything here. Just want to make sure I don't miss anything:



Close up of the pads.



Any comments are appreciated.

Thanks!

[zepher11]

I have been posting photos on the other forum of my progress, but thought I might as well get caught up here if anyone is interested. I did finish up the transmission and transfer case:













Also modified my homemade rotisserie to assist me in working on the body. I have been trying to avoid the work on it, but I guess I have to get on it:



I finally linked the two sections together so they would move as one and be a lot more safe. The CC is just a little longer than my GPW tub was:





It now reveals easily all of the hat channels that are rotted around the perimeter of the body and floor:













I figured I would start with the more difficult areas and hope it gets easier...right! Here's where I will start the battle:



Trying to close this gab with the floor jack:



Based on my wood block, the gap closed about 1/4" or more:



This hat channel in the recessed area is particularly difficult to remove. Can't get a grinder in there:



Plus the hat channel inserts into the body, so that has to be ground out as well:



Checking for fit and feel:



Looking good Joe:



If I was a WWII Dodge manufacturing facility, I wouldn't have a problem with the radius bends around the spare tire indent. Trying different options. Relief cuts:



Hear and bend...very long time to do this to prevent it from kinking. Actually, it turned out pretty decent:



Mock up with the heat bend hat channel:



Not much, but limping along as usual...

[Ray Edsall]

G,Day Zeph . Ford Canada CMP,s used the same gears in there Blitz trucks .So that would explain the Ford gear that you found in your gear box . Ray